Spy tips

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Spy tips

Postby AeitoTheouSophias on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:10 pm

I have read the Joab's post about the spy and how to play the spy and I think I under stand the basics, but I seem to be ineffective at best. Is it all about timing of uncloaking and stabbing the person you are going after? Or do I just need to find a better way of sneaking so I have a half second or so if i don't stab the guy right away?

My current setup is with My Eternal Reward and the Cloak and Dagger watch. I have the Dead Ringer but I haven't used it, and I think I still have an Ambassador revolver but I also don't see a reason to use it due to the reduce damage. I'd rather not just be a spy that sneaks around and stabs people in the back for kill counts. I would like to play each class they way they are meant to be played so if anyone can give me some tips I'd appreciate it.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Joab on Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:56 pm

Remember that when you are using the Cloak and Dagger you are only truly cloaked when standing still. If you move you can be detected. C&D spies do best when they can get into a position, cloak and wait for the enemy to come to them, then stab and hide. Or disguise and go after enemy buildings. I've never tried Dead Ringer, though I hate playing against spies that use it.

I don't ever play Spy though, so I'm not much of an authority on it.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] WarnerVH on Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:57 pm

Hey,

I don't know how good this will be for you but try this website. They have tips for all the classes.

http://tf2strategy.com/class-guides/spy/tips/
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Re: Spy tips

Postby AeitoTheouSophias on Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:27 am

[CS] Joab wrote:Remember that when you are using the Cloak and Dagger you are only truly cloaked when standing still. If you move you can be detected. C&D spies do best when they can get into a position, cloak and wait for the enemy to come to them, then stab and hide. Or disguise and go after enemy buildings. I've never tried Dead Ringer, though I hate playing against spies that use it.

I don't ever play Spy though, so I'm not much of an authority on it.



I didn't know that you could be seen while moving with the C&D. I thought that you just needed to stand still to recharge it. That would explain why the guy with the Christmas tree hat If that is the case then maybe I shouldn't use My Eternal Reward with it and disguise myself as a team mate so that I can get behind the lines and do some damage. I tried using the Dead Ringer last night but I was having a terrible night in game and CP maps aren't the best for me to practice being a spy.

Thanks for the link Warner. I will be looking at that guide!
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Joab on Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:41 am

Uriah wrote:I didn't know that you could be seen while moving with the C&D. I thought that you just needed to stand still to recharge it.

I didn't realize it either and wondered why I couldn't move anywhere while cloaked without being seen. The cloaking device you use will steer the way you play. The default Invisibility Watch cloaks you for 9 seconds, the Dead Ringer for 6.5 and the C&D indefinately (while standing still).

I can live with being owned by a skilled spy, but the reason I loathe the class is because so many of them are Cloak & Dagger spies who simply stand still invisibly and stab you as you run past them. There is no skill involved in that and it's not really helping your team win, especially on CP and PC maps. The worst of these are the ones who wait outside of the enemy spawn point, or who target specific players in order to get dominations. Or both. :evil:
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] WarnerVH on Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:50 am

but the reason I loathe the class is because so many of them are Cloak & Dagger spies who simply stand still invisibly and stab you as you run past them. There is no skill involved in that and it's not really helping your team win, especially on CP and PC maps. The worst of these are the ones who wait outside of the enemy spawn point, or who target specific players in order to get dominations. Or both. :evil:




I really don't have a problem with the way anybody plays the spy as long as they are not camping the spawn. You are right that most Spies simply take to the art of the class like most fishermen take to the art of fishing. They simply find a good spot, throw the bait over, and wait for some poor unsuspected enemy player to happen by and then they knife them.

I does get annoying though when you are in a heated area of the map and get killed by a spy only to take a good three minutes to respawn, run back over to the area you were killed in, just to be attacked and killed again by the same spy. I think the best remedy to the spy is when you see an enemy spy giving trouble to an area is to have a phyro or better yet a sniper from afar looking for the spy and then knocking it off. The spy is a pest which can really dominate a map if played by an efficient fellow.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Joab on Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:00 am

It's funny to read people in the TF2 Steam forum complain about the number of spy-checking Pyros they run into. These are people who play Spy and want Valve to give them things like a flame-proof suit. Look at your hoser Spy brethren and how they have played and you'll find the answer to why there are so many Pyros on the other team. And don't complain about it.

Sorry, but I've been targeted for domination by too many Spies when I was a Soldier or Demo. I was thinking, "I need to take out that sentry so we can advance" and was back-stabbled by a cowardly sneak who wanted to pad his stats, so he kept targeting me. Once I switch to Pyro his donimation ends.

Frankly, I've lived more rounds on the winning team because the other side had too many Spies than vice-versa.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] WarnerVH on Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:07 am

The worst thing about spies on the other team in my experience is when you know there are more than one running around and you can just bet there is at least one waiting at the intelligence center waiting for some unsuspecting player to try to pick up the brief case.

I have to agree though, the spy is the most annoying of all the classes and have caused me on more than one occasion to be glad my mic in teamspeak isn't geared up to go on upon voice activation.

Now I must say. The spy is a pain; but what does frustrate me is when the enemy has too many firebreathing pyros on the other team just running around and flaming everybody. On those maps where you need to push the cart across the map I find pyros coming at you in droves.

Ohwell!

Take care. It's time for my bedtime.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] No One on Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:38 am

A good spy can be frustrating as all get out. But there are ways to counter the spys like being a pyro and constantly moving and turning. If I know there is a spy around I constantly spy check and shoot obvious hiding places as I make my way to the action.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Scubadvr on Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:43 am

Maybe it's time to start talking about class limits?
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Joab on Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:57 am

I haven't seen it happening in our server Scuba. Not yet at least, but some of you guys may be in there more often than me. Vinnie plays Spy the right way, and that can be frustrating too, but only because he kills you, not because he does so cheaply.

Just the same, I can't think of any good reason for a team to have more than 2 spies in a 24 player server.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby AeitoTheouSophias on Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:16 am

Wow, I didn't mean to start a spy flame war! :cry: I think I have more hate for snipers than spys. Something about a guy standing WAY WAY back in a corner picking you off every time you peek around a corner just doesn't seem right. But I suppose the argument between spy and sniper hate could go either way.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Joab on Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:17 pm

No flames here. My Spy dislike has been from day 1 of this game, but it's a public server issue, not something I've seen in our server. I'm not a fan of the distant sniper either. Every FPS game with a sniper class in it will result in grumbling because there will always be people who abuse the class.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] Scubadvr on Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:06 pm

I just view spies and snipers as a special challenge. There's nothing quite as satisfying as killing a sniper with a taunt kill or the Mackerel, and bumping into a cloaked or diguised spy and making him eat a rocket. :mrgreen:

The things that do bug me are spies that just stand cloaked outside spawn and stab you in the back as you leave, snipers that just stand in the same spot and don't help their team win objectives, and engineers who set up buildings where there is no possible way to outflank them to destroy them. But, that's where a good spy or sniper comes in.

A good spy is one who concentrates his efforts in sapping engineer buildings, especially those surrounding intel in a CTF map. A good sniper is one who moves forward with the team, providing cover while the team attacks. Simple corner camping from afar is just stat padding.
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Re: Spy tips

Postby [CS] WarnerVH on Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:58 pm

Maybe it's time to start talking about class limits?


I don't think that would be a bad idea. If we take the experience of DODS then we can see the difference in play the servers with class restrictions had verses those that had none.

The right class restrictions can make or break the style of game we want played on our servers.

It might be a nice topic to start in the Central Command to see what restrictions if any should be applied to our TF2 servers.

I would suggest the following that would make for a good mix to play.

Soldiers: Unlimited
I would make them unlimited. Basic unit with good stats all around.

Heavy: 3
I think the Heavy is a self correcting problem. They are a great spray and pray weapon that I find is at a big disadvantage up close with it's main weapon.

Pyro: 3
I think 3 pyros are more than enough to defend a close fought capture point. They are the answer to finding spies and also the answer to the heavy.

Engineer: 2
I find the engineer is much like the heavy MG's of DODS. They can lay down a path of fire that is almost impenetrable under the right conditions. But unlike the MG's of DODS they take some time and considerable running to set up fully to the last level of power and they are sitting ducks. I'm torn between 2 and 3 because many maps could benefit from one portal, one dispenser and one sentry at strategic locations.

Medic: 2
It would reduce the number of medics simply pumping up the heavies. We need to encourage the medics to heal everyone as the game permits.

Scout: 2
There is no reason why we need more than two scouts.

Sniper: 1
There really is no need for 2 snipers.

Spy: 1
Once again, no need for 2 spies.

With this setup you have 14 possible players on a full server capable of playing support roles to the soldier. I think it would make the maps faster moving and require a more strategic thought to how to approach each game.

Ohwell
laters!
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